Travis Morales challenges Gen. Hayden's defense of NSA spy program

WCW reports: At the National Press Club on Jan. 23, Travis Morales, a World Can't Wait organizer, challenges General Hayden, former director of the National Security Agency, to a public debate on the NSA spy program and asks him whether the NSA is spying on The World Can't Wait - Drive Out the Bush Regime. Check out the transcript below.  Listen

Excerpt from remarks by General Michael V. Hayden
Principle Deputy Director of National Intelligence and former Director of the National Security Agency

Address to the National Press Club
"What American Intelligence & Especially the NSA Have Been Doing to Defend the Nation"

NATIONAL PRESS CLUB
WASHINGTON, D.C.
10:00 A.M. EST
MONDAY, JANUARY 23, 2006

QUESTION: My name is Travis Morales. And we've read numerous reports in the Times and other papers about massive spying by the NSA on millions of people, along with reports of rendition, torture, et cetera. And I attended Congressman Conyers' hearings on Friday where a gentleman came from South Florida talking about military intelligence went and infiltrated his Quaker peace group, and that this -- they later saw the documents detailing that.

And my question -- I guess I have two questions for you. One is, as a participant in a group called, "The World Can't Wait: Drive Out the Bush Regime," which is organizing for people to drown out Bush's lies during the State of the Union, and to gather on February 4 demanding that Bush step down, my question is this: Are you or the NSA -- and when I say you, I mean the NSA in its entirety -- is it intercepting our e-mail communications, listening to our telephone conversations, et cetera? Because as Bush has said, you're either against us or you're with us, and they have asserted that whatever the president wants to do in time of war, whether it's holding people without charges or writing memos justifying torture, they can do that.

My second question is this -- related to that. I publicly challenge you and the NSA to an open debate, a public open debate that people can gather and listen to your responses, a debate on this warrantless wiretapping and spying on millions of people that have gone on across this country, because as the Reverend said, millions and millions of people are outraged. That is why people are talking impeachment, that is why people are demanding that Bush step down, because of this massive spying, the torture, the rendition, and everything else. So I challenge you to a public and open debate on these questions.

GEN. HAYDEN: What was the question?

(Laughter.)

QUESTION: Will you openly and publicly debate us -- myself -- in a forum that's open to the public, not restricted, on the NSA spying scandal and defend what has been said, and respond to the numerous reports about the NSA spying on millions of people? That is one question. And the second question is: Are you spying on or intercepting our communications, e-mails and telephone conversations of those of us who are organizing The World Can't Wait to Drive Out the Bush Regime?

GEN. HAYDEN: You know, I tried to make this as clear as I could in prepared remarks. I said this isn't a drift net, all right? I said we're not there sucking up coms and then using some of these magically alleged keyword searches -- "Did he say 'jihad'? Let's get --" I mean, that is not -- do you know how much time Americans spend on the phone in international calls alone, okay? In 2003, our citizenry was on the phone in international calls alone for 200 billion minutes, okay? I mean, beyond the ethical considerations involved here, there are some practical considerations about being a drift net. This is targeted, this is focused. This is about al Qaeda.

The other request about a public debate -- as I mentioned at the beginning of my prepared remarks, this is a somewhat uncomfortable position for someone in my profession to be in, laying out details of the program. One way of describing what you have invited me to would be, "Why don't you come out and tell the world how you're catching al Qaeda?" And I can't do that. That would be professionally irresponsible.

QUESTION: No, I asked, are you targeting us and people who politically oppose the Bush government, the Bush administration? Not a fishing net, but are you targeting specifically political opponents of the Bush administration? Because as Vice President Gore recently said, "It is much worse than people realize."

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Full transcript is available at Democracy Now

Comments

[KLark]

it reads a lot better than it sounded -- which was shrill and uninformed.

the NSA has probably actively spyed on thousands of people, not millions. if there's an argument on "millions" it's in the margins. and when you're trying to effectively challenge power, being credible to an order of magnitude is important.

i liked sam husseini's question though. direct, to the point, and within the scope of observation and logic that everyone could identify with. and hayden balked at it.

from the c-span video it looked like morales just got waived off. now not everyone saw that, and not everyone sympathetic with his rage (i am) will be critical of the nature of his challenge -- but i am afraid that'll breed more shrill, ill-informed protestors... instead of people who can effectively challenge on the facts and on the nature of the opaqueness of getting at the rest of the facts.