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December 15, 2005

Comments

Stanley W. Rogouski

I've been trying to make sense of the ANSWER/UFPJ split and this article cleared up a few things.

It seems to me that the anti-Iraq war movement reached a high-water mark in September in the wake of Cindy Sheehan and Hurricane Katrina and hit a brick wall, the fact that the left wing of the Democratic Party will not support or even acknowledge it.

So this will obviously limit UFPJ's appeal somewhat.

Shroom Mate

Back up!

Well then... Here's a whole other take: The left is largely bureaucratized on one hand and lodged in "activist communities" that are constitutionally incapable of getting out of their own belly buttons.

It makes much more sense to focus work on neighborhoods and schools than positioning inside the left. Let those fools do what they do.

A hundred of them aren't going to be worth ten new people who aren't stuck in the ruts. Do you think "the left" even matters?

I really don't think it does so much... and considering its routines, that might not be such a bad thing.

he CP's leader Sam Webb upholds not just the current police state of China as a literal model (a position even worse than WW's if that were possible), but advocates that parties out of power follow the path of Salvador Allende... because we all know how great that turned out

Gee, when you say it it sounds crazy. ;-)

Seriously though I appreciate that you took the time to write this.
I don't know what the benefits of ingoring ANSWER and UFPJ would be. It is sort of like ignoring bills. Sure nobody is too keen on paying bills but we live in a world where that's a reality. If you are in a position where you can ignore them is it really going to be the best thing for struggle to champion that privilege? In other words if you're not engaging the world as it is, even if you are lucky enough not to have to if you don't want to, are you going to be in a position to build a movement that is in a position to really challenge the motherfukcers.

Granted this sort of ignorance is obvious in UFPJ and ANSWER so
I agree with burningman people with a better idea should get to it.

it matters

The left matters. A lot. The effect of the mass marches can't be underestimated. They punctured the "united we stand" stuff that no one has heard from since.

Radicals (including those who don't fancy themselves as such) were empowered to speak the truth even when the whole media structure spouted the war-party line.

But we are entering a new phase where we need to break the consensus more than we need to make a consensus.

I will attend the large marches, and depending on what else is up, will probably help mobilize for them. But the nature of the resistance needs to change.

Obstruction. Social disturbance. Walk-outs. Speak-outs. Agitating. Decorating. Not just mobilizing.

And we also have to start raising the level of what it is we are fighting for. If we can't articulate the kind of world we want, or at least the positive values which motivate us, then nobody not ensconsed in a lefty scene will pay much attention.

It's time for straight up politics and social disturbance.

Cort

It is a mistake to think that Stalinist groups are the left.

Building top down organizations that are sterile when it comes to the grassroots and giving lip service to gender, race and class while tailing after the bourgeoisie is also not the way to go.

Building from the grassroots and looking at the model in Venezuela, is somthing we can learn from.

But in the long run and the working class and their allies can stop the war and change history as we know it.

librario

Here's the discussion at NYC Indymedia:

http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2005/12/61984.html

Marconi

The writer is correct that this is REALLY old stuff, and more than a little like the New Mobilization in the Viet Nam era. So now both sides are repeating Viet Nam mistakes.

UFPJ really walked into it on this one. They're going to come out looking like the bad guys, as if we need good guys and bad guys in this sadly split movement.

The public outside the US hard left must find all this somewhat incomprehensible, not to mention the opportunities all around for mudslinging and red-baiting.

I wish people could get their egos under control long enough to damage the war and fascism.

I guess we'll have to build unity from the bottom up, and in spite of our fearless leaders instead of with them. Too bad.

the burningman

Like I said, I don't think this is really a split. UFPJ and ANSWER (plus the IAC, etc) already have their own entirely distinct operations.

UFPJ's hundreds of supporter groups are largely independent of the national office, and the UFPJ proclamation only covers national marches, not the innumerable local coalitions.

This is a multi-polar movement, with only two groupings confusing the staffing of mobilization offices with larger political leadership.

In the midst of THEIR dispute, the rest of us can tease out the issues involved and really figue out what it is EXACTLY we are hoping to move the movement towards.

Arguing about politics is how we learn. Let's try to do it better.

Molotov

Can we stop pretending like the word "Stalinist" actually means anything consistent?

Stalinists:

Ho Chi Minh
Mao Zedong
Che Guevara
Eric Honnecker
Huey Newton
Angela Davis
ANSWER

What do these people all have in common politically?

Not much.

Stalinist is a slur for unpopular commies. Why don't we put it to rest and criticze the qualities we disagree with instead of pejoratives.

(At least Burning Man tries by giving his own working definition)

I agree too that this isn't a split. It's a maveuver with little long-term importance. At best, it's an excuse to see where we all stand on the issues, not the positions.

the burningman

There is additional discussion on these questions with Max U., an editor at LeftTurn magazine and former organizer for UFPJ, and Francesca, the editor of the Non-Violent Resister (and LT) at:

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=18690716&postID=113391411569198118

srogouski

This is one of the best pieces I've read in awhile.

_____________________________
The left matters. A lot. The effect of the mass marches can't be underestimated. They punctured the "united we stand" stuff that no one has heard from since.

Radicals (including those who don't fancy themselves as such) were empowered to speak the truth even when the whole media structure spouted the war-party line.

But we are entering a new phase where we need to break the consensus more than we need to make a consensus.

I will attend the large marches, and depending on what else is up, will probably help mobilize for them. But the nature of the resistance needs to change.

Obstruction. Social disturbance. Walk-outs. Speak-outs. Agitating. Decorating. Not just mobilizing.

And we also have to start raising the level of what it is we are fighting for. If we can't articulate the kind of world we want, or at least the positive values which motivate us, then nobody not ensconsed in a lefty scene will pay much attention.

It's time for straight up politics and social disturbance.
_________________________________

I'm going to repost it on my own site.

http://www.rogouski.com/blog/2005/12/from_the_commen.html

Let me know if you have any objections to it's being reposted.

yopyop

Great article. I don't know all the history of different people within these organizations, but I do know that I will never attend a rally or march that involves ANSWER again. Their speakers are prone to ranting, in my view. I want to take my family to a peace rally someday, and I don't think I would be able to do that at an Answer rally. UFPJ, yes.

UFPJ is an open and much more democratic process - it also moves slowly because of that. But where ANSWER will never connect with the public, UFPJ I think can.

The speakers at the ANSWER run rally I went to went on about Saddam Hussein's 'Socialist Utopia' and how great Fidel Castro is. It seems to me that we shouldn't have to listen to that to be for peace. So many people I talk to at these rallys in SF and DC just put up the these speakers just because they want to show their opposition to the war. So kudos to UFPJ for not working with ANSWER on a national level - it should have happened a long time ago.

Wow!

Who hid this little gem?

Display stands

I agree, this is a multi-polar movement, with only two groupings confusing the staffing of mobilization offices with larger political leadership.

Ben Cliff

Live Answering Service

I would go for anti-war movement. Let's support them.

Ben

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